If You Knew Me, You Would Know My Father Also (Oneness Rebuttal Part 2)
This as Part 2 of the previous writing called “The Legal Testimony of God the Father Regarding His Son” In Part 1, we heard the Father’s testimony about His Son. In Part 2, we’ll hear the Son’s own testimony about His Father.
Did Jesus claim to be the Father when He said this (John 8:19)? To hear Oneness preachers tell it, He did. In his book The Oneness of God, David Bernard jumps to that conclusion—so adamantly, in fact, that he goes so far as to say the Jews would die in their sins if they failed to understand what even he admits Jesus did not clearly say:
“Jesus answered, ‘Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also’ (John 8:19)… In other words, Jesus tried to tell them that He was the Father and the I AM, and that if they did not accept Him as God they would die in their sins…” David K. Bernard, The Oneness of God (Word Aflame Press: Hazelwood, MO, 1983), 67.
Was Jesus “trying to tell them” He was the Father, as Bernard claims?
I wonder if Oneness preachers like Bernard realize just how precisely they are following the serpent’s playbook when they interpret Jesus this way: putting words in Jesus’ mouth that were actually the opposite of what He said. Let’s look carefully at the context where Jesus made this statement and see how He Himself explained it—then decide whether Bernard is putting words in His mouth He never spoke.
“17It’s also written in your law that the testimony of two people is valid. 18I am one who testifies about myself, and the Father who sent me testifies about me.” 19They said therefore to him, “Where is your Father?” Jesus answered, “You know neither me nor my Father. If you knew me, you would know my Father also.” (John 8:17-19)
So, in the context of the legal requirement of two people, Bernard wants us to believe that Jesus was trying to tell people He is the Father, and that’s how to defend Oneness doctrine. And yes, Oneness preachers still make this claim as if it is a slam dunk in defense of their view that Jesus and the Father are one personal being. That’s called taking words out of context.
Jesus’ context was the valid legal testimony of two people. Is that how someone starts out trying to tell someone they are the same person as the one they are agreeing with in testimony? If that was what Jesus was “trying to say,” then the legal testimony would be a failure. If the person of the Son is the same person of the Father (as if God were His own Father and His own Son), then there would not be two witnesses, and Jesus’ claim would have been either nonsensical or evasive.
In reality, these words of Jesus were just another way in which He had been telling them quite the opposite repeatedly but in different ways. Jesus’s point was simply that what He and the Father were saying was the same because Jesus was an exact representative of the Father. And He and the scriptures make this claim in many ways so it should be hard to miss. (see my study on Agency, here: https://1lord1faith.org/agency/)
That means the problem isn’t in what Jesus explained, the problem is with people not believing what Jesus did explain.
Let’s look at the many scriptures that show that Jesus explained Himself as an agent of the Father in many ways and thus was not at all trying and failing to say He was the Father, but that He was quite articulate in explaining that He was acting in perfect union and harmony with the Father, and John 8:19 is just one more example in a long list of just such declarations on Jesus’ part.
Seeing/receiving Jesus = seeing/receiving the One who sent Him
“He who believes in me, believes not in me, but in him who sent me. He who sees me sees him who sent me.” (John 12:44–45) (In this case Jesus explicitly explains that it is not Himself people are believing on when they believe on Him, because He is merely repeating what God commanded Him to say!)
“He who receives whomever I send, receives me; and he who receives me, receives him who sent me.” (John 13:20)
“He who receives you receives me, and he who receives me receives him who sent me.” (Matthew 10:40) (In this case, Jesus even explains that the same concept of agency works with those He sends to represent Him, representing God. Does that make us God’s also? Of course not!).
“He who receives me receives him who sent me.” (Mark 9:37; cf. Luke 9:48)
“He who has seen me has seen the Father.” (John 14:9)
In John 12:44–45, just as in all of these other similar verses, Jesus consistently explicitly stated that to believe in Him was to not believe in Him, but in the one who sent Him. That’s as clear as can be that He wasn’t claiming to be the same one who sent Him.
Sentness, not self-origin; words and works sourced in the Father
“I can of myself do nothing… I don’t seek my own will, but the will of him who sent me.” (John 5:30)
“For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me.” (John 6:38)
“My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me.” (John 7:16)
“I do nothing of myself, but as my Father taught me, I say these things… I always do the things that are pleasing to him.” (John 8:28–29)
“I proceeded and came from God; for I haven’t come of myself, but he sent me.” (John 8:42)
“The Father who dwells in me does his works… the words that I tell you, I speak not from myself.” (John 14:10)
“He who doesn’t love me doesn’t keep my words. The word which you hear isn’t mine, but the Father’s who sent me.” (John 14:24)
“I have kept my Father’s commandments and remain in his love.” (John 15:10)
“For I didn’t speak from myself, but the Father who sent me… gave me a commandment what I should say and what I should speak… therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told me.” (John 12:49–50)
Authority, power, and testimony as derived/given from the Father
“The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he sees the Father doing… For the Father loves the Son, and shows him all things that he himself does.” (John 5:19–20)
“For as the Father has life in himself, even so he gave to the Son also to have life in himself.” (John 5:26)
“The works which the Father has given me to accomplish… these works testify about me that the Father has sent me.” (John 5:36)
“My judgment is true, because I am not alone, but I am with the Father who sent me.” (John 8:16)
“The Father is greater than I.” (John 14:28)
“That the world may know that I love the Father, and as the Father commanded me, even so I do.” (John 14:31)
“The word which you hear isn’t mine, but the Father’s who sent me.” (John 14:24)
If Jesus was trying to tell them He was the Father, He did a terrible job. But if He was trying to tell them that the Father sent Him, and that He wasn’t alone, He was very articulate, effective and consistent with that message.
Mission statements from Jesus about doing the Father’s will
“My food is to do the will of him who sent me and to accomplish his work.” (John 4:34)
“We must work the works of him who sent me while it is day.” (John 9:4)
“I didn’t come of myself, but he sent me.” (John 8:42)
“I came not of myself, but he sent me.” (cf. John 7:28–29)
Prayer-based confirmations of agency (Jesus speaking to the Father)
“Father, I thank you that you listened to me. I know that you always listen to me, but because of the multitude standing around I said this, that they may believe that you sent me.” (John 11:41–42)
“Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son, that your Son may also glorify you… This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.” (John 17:1–3)
“For the words which you have given me I have given to them… and they knew truly that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.” (John 17:8)
“As you sent me into the world, even so I have sent them into the world.” (John 17:18)
“…that the world may believe that you sent me… that the world may know that you sent me and loved them, even as you loved me.” (John 17:21, 23)
According to Onenessians who think Jesus was trying to tell them He was the Father, Jesus wasn’t even capable of telling Himself the truth in prayer, but kept speaking like the Father was someone else. Either Jesus was very confused, very deceitful, or perhaps Onenessians just aren’t interested in hearing Jesus’ testimony of Himself.
Commissioning others in the same agency pattern
“As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” (John 20:21)
“All authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations…” (Matthew 28:18–20)
“He who receives you receives me, and he who receives me receives him who sent me.” (Matthew 10:40; cf. Luke 10:16 “He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”)
“1But Saul, still breathing threats and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest 2and asked for letters from him to the synagogues of Damascus, that if he found any who were of the Way, whether men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem. 3As he traveled, he got close to Damascus, and suddenly a light from the sky shone around him. 4He fell on the earth, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?” 5He said, “Who are you, Lord?” The Lord said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.” (Acts 9:1-5)
This is why Onenessians are so confused with the identity of Jesus. They simply do not accept that when God sends someone, like He did with Jesus, and like Jesus did with the apostles, those agents were considered by God to be acting on His behalf, and whoever acted toward them, was acting upon God.
“41Then he will say… 42for I was hungry, and you didn’t give me food to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me no drink; 43I was a stranger, and you didn’t take me in; naked, and you didn’t clothe me; sick, and in prison, and you didn’t visit me.’ 44“Then they will also answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and didn’t help you?’ 45“Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Most certainly I tell you, because you didn’t do it to one of the least of these, you didn’t do it to me.’” (Matthew 25:41-45)
This is just how real God treats His agents, in the same way Jesus could tell Saul, “why do you persecute me”.
So why did I ask if Onenessians realize just how precisely they are following the serpent’s playbook when they interpret Jesus this way: putting words in Jesus mouth that were actually the opposite of what He said? Well, we have two examples I am thinking of. The first one in Matthew 4-5-7 where the devil tempted Jesus to jump from a pinnacle, and Jesus answered that it is written again not to tempt God. That’s the way Onenessians interpret John 8:19; they ignore all the context and jump to a conclusion Jesus never made, and negate what He did explain.
Then there is Matthew 16:21-23. In this scene, Jesus explains to them:
“…That he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders, chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and the third day be raised up. Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, saying, “Far be it from you, Lord! This will never be done to you.” But he turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me, for you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of men.”
The way the devil interprets the Bible, and the way that Peter rejected Jesus’s explanation, is precisely the way that Onenessians deny the words of Jesus and interject their own jumped-to conclusion to take the place of Jesus’s words. And what does Jesus have to say about those who don’t listen to Him? As we saw with Peter, it turns out trying to correct Jesus’ choice of words is a very bad idea. Let’s let Jesus tell us (ironically, in the context of the very topic we are discussing) whether Jesus came of Himself or of the Father:
“42Therefore Jesus said to them, “If God were your father, you would love me, for I came out and have come from God. For I haven’t come of myself, but he sent me. 43Why don’t you understand my speech? Because you can’t hear my word. 44You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and doesn’t stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks on his own; for he is a liar, and the father of lies. 45But because I tell the truth, you don’t believe me. 46Which of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me? 47He who is of God hears the words of God. For this cause you don’t hear, because you are not of God.” (John 8:42-47)
Now let’s respond to Oneness claims in the same way that Jesus would have responded to the devil’s jumped to conclusions.
Claim: “Jesus was telling them He is the Father.”
It is written again: “The words that I tell you, I speak not from myself; but the Father who dwells in me does his works.” (John 14:10)
He distinguished Himself from the Father inside that very explanation—the Father dwelling in Him, not being Him.
Claim: “Seeing Jesus means you’re seeing the Father Himself.”
It is written again: “He who sees me sees him who sent me.” (John 12:45)
Seeing Jesus means seeing the One who sent Him—that’s representation, not identity.
Claim: “Jesus said this to reveal His identity as the Father.”
It is written again: “I can of myself do nothing. I don’t seek my own will, but the will of him who sent me.” (John 5:30)
Separate wills cannot belong to one identical person.
Claim: “Jesus and the Father are the same being.”
It is written again: “The Father is greater than I.” (John 14:28)
Superiority and subordination destroy any idea of identity equivalence.
Claim: “Jesus was the Father manifest in flesh.”
It is written again: “For I didn’t speak from myself, but the Father who sent me, he gave me a commandment what I should say and what I should speak.” (John 12:49)
The Speaker and the Commander are distinct—the commanded does not equal the commander.
Claim: “Jesus’ works prove He is the Father.”
It is written again: “The Father who dwells in me does his works.” (John 14:10)
The works belong to the indwelling Father, not to an incarnation of the Father.
Claim: “Jesus’ unity with the Father proves He is the Father.”
It is written again: “That they may be one, even as we are one.” (John 17:22)
The same kind of unity shared with believers cannot mean sameness of person.
Claim: “Jesus was speaking as the Father Himself.”
It is written again: “My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me.” (John 7:16)
The Father is the originator; Jesus is the messenger.
Claim: “Jesus came of His own authority because He is the Father.”
It is written again: “I came not of myself, but he sent me.” (John 8:42)
Self-sending and being-sent are mutually exclusive.
Claim: “Jesus was equal in identity to the Father.”
It is written again: “The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he sees the Father doing.” (John 5:19)
An observer learning from another is not that other person.
Claim: “The Father and Jesus are one person in different roles.”
It is written again: “As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” (John 20:21)
If “sent” means “same person,” then the apostles were also Jesus—which exposes the absurdity.
Claim: “Jesus’ words were the Father speaking because He was the Father.”
It is written again: “He who doesn’t love me doesn’t keep my words. The word which you hear isn’t mine, but the Father’s who sent me.” (John 14:24)
The Son expressly disowns authorship of the Father’s words.
Claim: “Jesus showed that He and the Father are indistinguishable.”
It is written again: “Father… this is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.” (John 17:3)
Eternal life depends on knowing two—the only true God and His sent Messiah.
It’s actually very easy to understand what Jesus meant—when you obey His command to live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. Those who refuse that command will never hear what He’s really saying.
